Podcast Episodes

Content Marketing That Generates Income

Jason Van Orden On Content Marketing That Generates Income
How can you create and publish content that attracts your ideal customers, earns their trust, and inspires them to do business with you? In this session, Jason will help craft a content strategy that delivers results.
You’ll learn the exact content to deliver at each stage of the customer journey to ensure that your ideal prospects progress towards the sale in a way that feels authentic to you and valuable to them.

You’ll also learn how to create content that cuts through the noise so you can gain the attention your unique brilliance deserves.

Expert: Jason Van Orden

Jason helps authors, academics, and speakers turn their “intellectual equity” into new streams of scalable income and a business model that amplifies their work. As a consultant, trainer, and strategist, he draws from more than sixteen years of experience, including creating multiple successful brands, launching over 60 online courses, teaching more than 10,000 entrepreneurs, earning seven figures in online course sales, and generating 8 million downloads of his podcasts. His mission is to help visionaries with impactful ideas to connect with the people they serve best and the problems they can most uniquely solve.

Tobin Slaven 0:00

This is Book of Experts and we're back. We have an awesome masterclass coming up for you tonight. Now, the first question I want to mention to you guys is how do you know what intellectual equity is? Have you ever heard that phrase, you probably might recognize equity, think about the equity that you build up in your house in your home. It's the value that accrues over time, or intellectual equity is the same thing that experts are building up the all the hard won expertise. The experiences that you have a lot of our members of community know what I'm talking about, right? You've earned your stripes along the way. Well, tonight's guest, Jason van orden. And I'm going to bring Jason on now, Jason van orden is the guy that will help you tap into that intellectual equity. And tonight, we're going to be talking about content marketing. But I just wanted to get that out there. Because I think it's such an interesting thing that you're doing Jason and working with folks, helping them put the strategies of business models in place, so that they can tap into, you know, if they've written the book, if they've been doing this for years, but they don't necessarily have the business that they want behind that model. Jason's the guy you should be talking to.

Jason Van Orden 1:11

It's great to be here. Tobin, I'm really happy to have the opportunity to share this content, because it's going to be really useful to everybody who tunes in.

Tobin Slaven 1:20

Today, today, we're going to for the master class, we're going to specifically focus on content marketing. Now, I know this has been your game for a long time like this. I often jokingly tell Jason, he's one of the first his one of his first businesses is the first newsletter that I signed up for. That's how I got to know Jason years and years ago, early in the internet marketing space. But you've been doing this content marketing and figuring out how to go from content into clicks, and eventually the income, the revenue that folks can generate in a business. This has been your game for a while. Where did this come from? Where What was your background before and will sort of kick off? I'd like to hear a little bit of that. Because I think I know folks in the book of experts community know you well, but they may not know this whole story.

Jason Van Orden 2:09

Yeah, I've been creating content online since probably about 2003. And the first thing you brought me online was a course that I had created offline and that I was selling offline as a physical binder and a set of CDs and I went online looking for new people to connect with now at the time, all there was like forums and content marketing was basically go into forums provide great value. And in your byline, sometimes people click and buy your thing, right. But then when podcasting came out, as a new technology at the end of 2004, I heard about it in 2005. And hopped right on that, because I have a background in being a musician. So I understood the audio aspect of a background of being a marketer. So I understood the the important ramifications it could have for business. And I understood the technical stuff, because I had been a software engineer before. And, and very quickly, as I started, I started a few different podcasts, I started seeing the power that that had to attract an audience for the ideas that you wanted to give out, get out there. And so you know, I'd say ever since I've been a content marketer and a content strategist in different ways, through podcasting, and also through the various other channels, and we'll be talking about some of those today.

Tobin Slaven 3:16

Yeah, I mean, I'm excited to dig into this, not only getting the ideas out there, but specifically connecting them to revenue as well, which I know is a big challenge for a lot of folks. This is, you know, it's it's at the essence of what you do on a day to day basis with the creating the growth strategies with your clients. What is the gap? Why Why is this such a hard problem? Or why has this been a hard challenge for people? Why doesn't it just happen? You put you put good, great stuff out there? You build it? Why don't they come?

Jason Van Orden 3:49

Yeah, you know, it really comes down to a question of strategy. And I like that we're talking about how we were going to be talking about content strategy this evening. And strategy is a question of how do you use your limited time, money and other resources in order to then you know, what do you focus those things on in order to get the results that you want the most efficiently and get the greatest returns? Because content marketing, you know, content channels are, a lot of them are free these days, right? But it's not free to create that content and make sure it gets published in the right ways and reaches the right people. And so, where people usually end up having holes in their system and not realizing it, even though they're churning out content, that's, you know, might be great, you know, if it just got in front of the right people, it's not thinking about it strategically at the high level. And the fact that, you know, is zoom out from content as you zoom out from Oh, I've got a podcast or you zoom out from Hey, I'm on Instagram or you zoom out from, you know, I write articles regularly for my blog, and LinkedIn and other places. It's really a question of creating a customer journey. And the purpose of a customer journey is to grab the attention of the right people that you are trying to attract that you know, you can serve the best that your products and services and other things are geared for that audience. Once you've got their attention, having the time Trying to earn their trust and resonate with them over time and then eventually getting to where you inspire them to buy from you and the content channels that you choose, as well as the formats that you put out through those channels play a key role in creating that customer journey, which is like a path straight to buying your your offers, and continually guiding people down that garden path to the point that they do buy from you, and, you know, reap the benefits of what it is that you have to have to offer. So that's one of the biggest holes, and we'll be talking about some of the other mistakes, then that that results when you don't have when you aren't zooming all the way out and thinking strategically about your content. One of them being is that you feel like you're wasting a lot of time, because you're like, wow, I really put a lot of time into my stuff. And I just don't get the results that I want. So hopefully we'll solve that for some people tonight.

Tobin Slaven 5:45

Yeah, solve that problem. And that that feeling of I have to be everywhere, like every day, every day, there's something new, you know, it's clubhouse, and then it's going to be the LinkedIn version of clubhouse. And they'll like all these different, bright and shiny things. And it puts so much pressure on us to try to be everywhere at once and show up with quality, which is, you know, if you have a team, I think you can do that. But if you're if you're a one person, or if you're even one member of a team, you're responsible for multiple channels that can put a lot of pressure, I really have chosen to sort of focus on a couple that were really relevant and not try to be everywhere and myself in the past, because it was overwhelming. And it just felt like too much too much.

Jason Van Orden 6:26

Right? Well, part of strategy is definitely choosing the right channels for you. And knowing how many channels you can maintain, given the resources you have, and then continually coming up with workflows that allow you to get the most out of every piece of content that you create. So that you know you create one really good piece of content, but it can allow you to show up in half a dozen or however many different places you might have identified that you want to be, but doing so in an efficient way. And also being very strategic about which what those channels are. And so we'll talk about how to choose the channels, how to plug them together in the right way, how to find the ones that are best for you, and so forth.

Tobin Slaven 7:00

One of the things I love about this, you talked about the client journey, when when you have folks who are showing up, you know, in your zoom call, for example, if that's where the sales happen, they show up in the zoom call, and they already have had their questions answered. They already know what you do. They know why you're unique and different in your space. They're excited to work with you they've already, you know, bought, bought and drank the Kool Aid so to speak. Like that's, that's when business is really fun. And I think that when the content machine is working really well for you, it is bringing people through those steps so that they show they arrive at your door in a completely different place. There's there's no selling, there's no convincing needed because they've they've really convinced themselves along the along the journey that it was worth their time, they made that decision in multiple steps.

Jason Van Orden 7:47

Absolutely. And even if they get to the end of that clan journey, and for whatever reason right now decide it's not the time to do business with you, you still want them just feeling so thrilled by the value that they've received, you know, and that even though you were selling to them marketing and progressing a sales process, you know, ultimately, that they still feel like wow, okay, that was awesome. You know, and I, one of the coolest things, I got feedback from a client, I was helping with the launch. In fact, I'm gonna use that as an example, that particular launch this evening, was that she got an email in response to one of her emails, it was one of the later emails in the sequence and said, Well, this, the sequence of emails has already been a course itself. Like I can only imagine how good the course itself is. And I just love that hearing that right people really resonating with and that's that's the experience we want to create for people.

Tobin Slaven 8:35

Yeah, 100%. Because these days, folks, people, yes, they pay with their money, maybe even their crypto their Bitcoin or whatever. But they also pay with their attention, right. And in many ways that attention might be more even more important currency for us to work with. Because it's it is the traction is the exchange of ideas, the feedback cycles that you have with the clients and prospects that you're working with that allow you, each of us to get better at what we're doing as well. So yeah, I'm excited for this. Jason, take it away. What do you want? Want to bring slides up on the screen? What can we do now?

Jason Van Orden 9:09

Yeah, so I mean, I guess we laid the foundation here pretty well, in talking about how it's, it's important to think strategically about your content that requires zooming out and what I do because I'm a business strategist, and I love creating frameworks for my clients or for content like this, that help people gain clarity about their strategy, first of all, help pull them out. And then either give them the right questions to ask or the right thing way to look at things and put them together or the right sequence of things to think through in order to arrive at what that strategies can be. So then you can zoom into, you know, executing on that plan that you've put together. So that's what I like to help people to do. So let's go ahead and bring up my screen here because I just want to make sure that we're, you know, I talked about customer journey, and I'm just going to share briefly here. What for those who might, you know, want to, like think visually and might want to know well, what exactly does that look look like a customer journey. And so this is one example right here, we've got over here on the left side, a number of different marketing and sales channels, you'll notice I have blue ones, which are kind of representing your free, more organic, free in terms of money, you know, not free necessarily in terms of time, more organic sources of traffic. And down here, the red ones are things that you know, take more time and money and things like paid ads or, you know, speaking engagements and things like that. But you know, we put these channels into place, and this is what we're talking about, you want to be very strategic about which channels you're using, and how they work together to move people to the point where they're buying your your product right here. So people ultimately we want to be getting them onto our email list, because that's still one of the most effective ways to to to get somebody to buys, you can put a link right into their inbox, when they're in a mindset that they might actually click and buy it, it's very hard to get somebody straight from social media to buy from you, right? So we're getting them to a landing page, typically, but the customer journey is already starting back here, with you're getting their attention with this content, right, or search engines bringing them to content or you're sharing social on social media, and they're seeing the content, but ultimately, you're probably getting them you want them to follow you in some way to email, this being one of the most effective ways or at the very least, it could be a Facebook group, it could be a podcast, but something where you're effectively on a regular basis, you get to on a regular basis, you get to interact with them, you get to provide value to them and have them receive that value and thereby earning their earn their trust. So once they sign up for that you're taking them through this email series or you know, they're getting their your podcast through their their mobile phone. And again, you're marching them down through that, that customer journey, which looks like a series of content that is answering their questions, a swaging their fears, explaining the roadmap of what it is that you offer, explaining why you've got the best solution for them, why you're the best person to provide that solution. And then ultimately, why now might be the time that they should consider investing time and energy into that solution. So on a practical level, this is what it looks like. I'm going to go ahead and bring up here quickly another diagram that I have, that is going to simplify this but show us you know, not like this is zooming out now. Right? So it's simplifying, but it's also zooming out at the same time. There we go. So when I think about customer journey, even though those are all the mechanics, let's zoom out because if we look at those mechanics, we get too stuck on like, oh, gosh, like, Okay, I need a funnel, that's what's wrong, I got to make a write an email sequence, or on my landing page isn't working, or Okay, maybe I should be trying this social media thing, right. And so we're attacking all these different tactics. And that diagram we were just looking at, at ends up being kind of this Frankenstein amalgamation of things that aren't actually moving people in a fluid manner through your customer journey. So let's zoom out here and think of our customer journey for a moment, it's just simply three different stages. The first stage is you got to gain their attention. I love what you said earlier Tobin about how attention is it's just as valuable as money these days, because it all starts with attention. And we very much live in an attention economy, where our ability to be able to capture the attention of those people that we know we can serve best, is the thing that starts the entire process of them doing business with us. And people's attention these days is very fractured. So getting in front of those people means being in the right place through the right channels with the right message at the right time, for the right people so that they can go Oh, wait, okay, you know, in their busy day, scrolling through social media, you know, going think about, think about all the different sources of input that hit us on it on a given day. And we've got this spam filter literally built into our brain that's filtering most of it out that amidst all of that, you're putting something in front of them the right time that makes them stop for even a split second, go, Wait a second, this looks really relevant to me, this is this looks like it's addressing a top of my need pain desire that I have. So I should give this a bit of attention. And then that's when you have that moment to hopefully, keep that attention long enough to give them an invitation to opt into that email list or follow your Facebook group or subscribe to your podcast, whatever that channel is that you're going to use to start building trust with them. So that's the middle phase right here is that earn trust. And again, that's that sequence of content, that's just helping them understand all the things they need to understand, be aware of all the things they need to be aware of believe all the things about themselves and you and your process that they need to in order to be able to say, you know, clearly make a yes or no answer, yes or no decision for themselves about whether or not to buy into your product. And once you know that you've earned their trust efficiently. You put that you use content again, my favorite for this phase right here is email if they're on my email list, and I do a launch or promotions by email, to put that call to action in front of them to say, Okay, here's the offer. Now that we've talked about all these things, I have this course I have this group program, I have this consulting package, whatever the case may be, and I'd like to give you an opportunity to enroll in this now. So think about these three phases right here is important for a few different reasons. Number one, You know, I said that where people get themselves in trouble, it's not zooming out enough. And so what happens is their channels, they don't have the right channels in order to meet, in order to fulfill the purpose of each of these three phases right here. So let me give you an example of what I mean, because different channels and formats are, are better at different of these phases. And it's really important to know which types of channels operate best and each of these phases. So for instance, on the attention side, being a guest on people's podcast, that's a good way to get the attention of new people, Facebook ads is going to be a new way, a good way, speaking in front of people might be a good way, right? So there's all these things where you're getting in front of new people, and you have an opportunity to put enough of a message in front of them. It might be a brief ad, it might be a 30 minute keynote, whatever the case may be that they're like, Whoa, okay, yeah, this is relevant to me. But then there's some channels that aren't going to be as good at gaining attention. Right? Not that, that they completely fail at that. But for instance, a podcast, I mean, Tobin mentioned that I launched the first podcast about internet marketing and internet business. And we were very fortunate at the time to just kind of hit some timing, right and have something that really resonated with people and a lot of people, you know, came looking for content in podcast format, and found our show. These days, it's proliferated, there are a lot of podcasts out there. And unfortunately, some of the main ways that people discover podcasts like Spotify and iTunes, they pretty much put the spotlight on this top tier of, you know, mainstream content, or people who have very large followings. And so it's, you know, very difficult to just put a podcast out there, put it in the directories and be like, yeah, my podcast is gonna grow me an audience. So when I hear somebody saying, Hey, I started a podcast to grow my audience. If that's the only thing you're doing to gain attention, and people will, you're probably got a big hole right here in the front. And because, yeah, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna help a little slice of this attention piece of your customer journey. But podcasting isn't as strong right now. Unless you know how to re syndicate that podcast in interesting ways and repurpose it through social media and get it into other places that it can get people's attention. Where does podcasting shine and this isn't a pitch for podcasting, I'm just using this as an example. podcasting, for instance, really shines on the air and trust. In fact, it's one of the best channels out there for earning trust, because somebody's just listening to you and your voice. And, and while they're working out, or taking their walk or doing the dishes and walking their dog, whatever the case may be. And I've had people listen to a podcast of mine, and within a few weeks be spending $6,000 or more with me as a client, because of that trust that gets earned through the podcast. Now, email can also do a great job for an email sequence. And other ones can be great at earn trust, I think, you know, format, like, you know, live streaming can be great at attention as well as earning trust. So the point I'm trying to make here is thinking about Okay, with my channel mix, and my my, the format's that I've chosen Do I have a complete customer journey in terms of these three phases right here. And so one of the best ways to make sure that you're doing that is, first of all to make sure you've got your email list, and you're continually as we saw in the diagram before be building that email list, because email is still going to be one of the absolute best right here for inspiring them to buy. You can use Facebook ads at that point of inspiring them to buy do some retargeting and things you're not going to get cold leads off of Facebook, as you know. So that would only be retargeting Facebook ads that might work in this phase, but email is going to be still one of the absolute best ways to inspire people to buy. So are you in the right channels that actually do get you in front of the right people and gain their attention? Then do you have something that allows them to follow you over time here, email, list, your podcasts, whatever, earn their trust, and then eventually gets them into that email list so that you can kind of do that last push towards Okay, now it's time to consider whether or not you're going to, you know, take take me up on this offer. Now, of course, if they say no, well, they just go right back into earn trust, and hopefully they stick around until the time is right. But that's one of the things I want to point out first is thinking about your marketing mix, and making sure that you've got something that operates Well, in each of these three phases, three phases right there. Because when people come to me and say my contents not delivering the results that I want, one of the first things I look at is this framework right here, and how they're connecting things together to see if there are holes anywhere. And often like there might be a hole here either in the channels they're using for attention or the messaging that you're using to gain attention. And we'll talk about that here, the messaging piece in a bit, as well. So keep this in mind as we move forward. This these three phases, attempt to gain attention, earn trust, and inspire action. One of the other things here that I want to point out about these, these three, these three phases right here is that you can have more than one channel, you know, that can fulfill You know, I'm not saying that, you know, your email list just does inspire action piece, right, but it is, you know, one of the most effective at that. So keep that in mind. I'm not saying that's a silo where a particular channel just occupies that one. That one piece of the puzzle. But a complete customer journey is going to move people through all three of these phases. Now, one of the biggest mistakes that that people make in this attention piece right here, that causes them their strategy to break down is, well, first of all, I already mentioned how to make sure you in the right channels that are going to get in front of the right kinds of people. So double check that but then, what are you saying in order to again, break through that noise break through that spam filter that everyone has in their brain, make them stop for a second, whether that's in their social media feed, whether that's an ad on a site, what you know, whatever that case may be, whether it's, you know, coming to see you speak at a conference and go, Okay, this looks relevant to me, I need to pay attention for a bit. And so what I'd like to do now is I'm gonna switch over to another framework here that helps you with that messaging piece and find the holes that might that you might have in your messaging. So this is a framework I call the customer that's called I don't call it, I didn't name it, but it's called the customer awareness spectrum. However, this version of what we're going to be looking at right here is, is my own proprietary version, because I've added some things that I think are missing from other places that I've heard this, this idea talked about. But the customer awareness spectrum gives you an idea of here, here are, here are the different phases that somebody goes through what's going on in their mind, the things that they're thinking about, and the phases that the so the three phases of the that we just looked at that from the point of view of the chat, the marketing channels that you are choosing this is from the point of view of what's going on in the mind of the people that you are now guiding through that guiding through that customer journey. And so there are different things that they're thinking about and different awareness that they're gaining, that's going to allow them eventually make that decision of a yes or no to buy your product in the end. So I just want to go through these because this is really handy for letting you know what kind of content you need to make at each piece at each point in that it's each touchpoint in your customer journey and to make sure that you are speaking to where that person is at the absolute most effective customer journey is one that puts the exact right message in front of them and exact right time for what it is that they're thinking about in that process. Now, it's not always possible to get that granularity of the exact right for the one person. But certainly by using this and thinking about am I creating content in each of these five areas that as people progress through, you'll at least be touching all these different five areas that are needed in order for somebody to say yes, to your offering. So let's take a quick look at this right here. And it starts at the bottom. And people move upward through this pyramid as they progress through your content strategy, your customer journey that you've created for them. At the pain aware state, this is a piano where stage, this is where often this is where you're gaining their attention. So think about where we're just talking about the attention phase. Usually it's pain awareness that you are, that is where you're gonna grab that attention. So here's the analogy I like to us as we talk about this framework right here. If you think about, you know, when you let's say you wake up one day, and you've got a rash on your skin, and it's gotten bad enough, you're like, I need to figure out what this is, and maybe ameliorate this because it's you know, it's itchy. It's bothersome, I don't like it, and maybe it's indicative indicative of other problems that might be going on, right. So what do we often do what we might go, yeah, we've got this symptom, we've got this pain. And so at that point, we're pain aware, right? So we're going to start actively looking for help to alleviate that pain, or to fulfill a need or a goal that we have. So I'm just using this medical example here for a moment to give you an idea. At that point, maybe you go and you start doing some research on Google, right? As much as maybe we're told, hey, don't don't be your own doctor and go look at stuff, it's just gonna freak you out, or you'll go down the wrong path. We all do it right? We start looking on one of these Web MD or whatever sites about what might be going on with these symptoms. What could it mean? So at that point, we're looking now we're trying to understand what is the problem that's causing this symptom over here? Now, the interesting thing to note is that there's a good chance we might get it wrong, like we make a look. Oh, yeah. Okay, I looked at Web MD. And I think this is probably a food allergy is what it sounds like. And so we might diagnose our own problem. Your audience, your prospective customers, or clients are doing the same thing. They're aware of a symptom. And they're looking to understand that symptom better and what problem might be causing it and they probably have some preconceived notions about what's going on. They may have bought into some myths, they may have bought made some assumptions, they may have received some bad information. And that's why this stage is really important, because we need to help them reframe the problem. Understand, actually, the thing that's causing the problem for you is this thing over here. So like, what if we go to the doctor and the doctor asked him some questions, maybe take some vitals, whatever tests he might do, he or she might do and then imagine that they're like, okay, actually looks like you have an autoimmune disease. You know, so this is your body having a response to itself and we need to change your diet, you'd have two choices. You can change your Or you could take a pill in order to get rid of this, this rash that's showing up for you because it's autoimmune disease. So now we're aware of the problem. And the doctor started proposing some potential solutions for us, right. So at this stage, the customer starts going, Okay, I see your proposed solution, and we want to help them understand that your proposed solution is the best one. And the case of the doctor, you know, it's a little bit different, because of course, he might be neither here nor there, you might just be like, Okay, what do you prefer the effort of the nutrition or this take the drug and go that way, right. And he's happy to give you either one. But in your case, you want them to choose the solution that you've chosen, that is the best one for them, you might actually have a couple different offers. And at this stage, you might be helping them, you know, deciding, okay, is this offer best for them? Or is that offer best for them. And in that case, your customer journey might actually split and then you take them down the one that's the most relevant to them. But the goal is to get them to a place where they see your proposed solution is the best one, because they understand the problem better. And you've, you've presented this solution said why it's different than other solutions, why it's the best one. And then at that point, you want to get into the next phase, which is not only is this the best solution, I'm the best one to help you with this solution. Let's say you got the nutrition route with the doctor, right? You could decide to go and like, Okay, I'm going to do the research myself and try to figure it out, watch YouTube videos, read some books, whatever, you could decide, I'm gonna go hire a nutrition coach, right. So if you think of this, this kind of a journey from and not to mix things too much, I'm kind of jumping over from a doctor to a nutrition coach. Now, let's say that you go looking online and you land on an injury nutrition coaches page, and they're trying to point out, it's like, here's why it's important to have a coach to help you with this, as opposed to try to go the your own route. And when it comes to autoimmune disease, I happen to be somebody who understands it very deeply, because not only have I dealt with it myself, but I've also been through it with many of my different clients over the years, and I'm credible in all these ways. And you're also showing a why. So that's how you're earning their trust, and also getting a sense of who you are, and whether or not they just vibe with your style, right. So at that point, a nutritionist would be helping the, you know, this person with their autoimmune disease, help them see that they are the best person to help with this illusion of nutrition in order to get rid of the problem of the autoimmune disease that's going to solve the pain or symptom that they have, which is that rash, right? And then then last stage, you have to get them to is helping them understand that it is in their best interest to invest in the solution right now, not in six months, not in a year, not someday later, because someday later either means never or, but perhaps, and this isn't enough, let's push them to, you know, in marketing, we often see all this use scarcity, and use urgency and there are places you can use that in inappropriate ways. Unfortunately, it gets used, I think, in ways that are too manipulative. But one of the best ways to help somebody make a decision now, rather than putting it off later, is just to in a consultative serving way help them see, the longer you wait to solve this problem, the longer you wait to get rid of this rash, and treat this autoimmune disease, these are the effects it's going to start taking on your health these are this is how it's going to start, you know leading to less energy or start you know, other symptoms will start showing up. So it's in your, it's gonna cost you more to wait to take care of this to later than it is to just hire me and help you know, to take you through this process right now of improving your nutrition, and all the other things that we've talked about already. So this is where you are helping them see the cost of either doing nothing, or the cost of waiting, right and whatever niche you're in, whether it's health or wealth or relationships or some subcategory that are something related in some way, there's always a way to help them see what the cost is, it might be an emotional cost, it might be a monetary cost, it might be you know, other resources might be a time cost it's like look once you work with me it's gonna save you so much time that you know that it's going to be irrelevant how much time the solution takes because afterwards you're gonna wonder where you know why didn't do this earlier. So this is the process we want to take people through and so what we can do is we can also look at this now I see if I can get to the next I thought I had another page maybe I don't let me double check this really quickly. I have a version of this chart so this is from the perspective of the Yeah, this is just a one page version. So I have another version that the base is you know same chart but it says the type of content to be creating at each point here but we can go ahead and talk through that even though don't have that that version of it when you use this as the the diagram so now if we go if you start thinking about this Okay, it's like if that's the thinking process you're trying to guide somebody through bit by bit so that it becomes this like inevitable yes at the end assuming they are the right fit for what you offer. Okay, what is the what is the content need to look like at each of these stages? Well, the pain aware stage, you need to be talking about what are the top of mine pressing pain What is the problem that is presenting right now? That is a thorn in their side that they want to get rid of what is I like to refer to it as the toothache pain? If you've got a toothache, and it's getting bad, you're gonna go see the dentist, right? So what is that for for them? Perhaps they're stuck in their job. Like if your career coaches are stuck in their job, they absolutely hate it, they can't figure out, you know how to how to find something, they actually love to do their feeling for five years, they tried to figure out like which direction they should go, they're not getting a promotion, they just feel like they're turning their wheels, that would be the pain. So you'd want to speak to that particular pain. If you are, let's say, a relationship coach, it might be somebody that's been, you know, dating for years, and they're like, or, you know, I just keep going through the same patterns over and over again, with my relationships, how do I figure out what I got to change in order to eventually find the kind of relationship that I that I want, you got to be talking about pains. And often when people their content strategy is not one of the reasons it doesn't work, as well as it should, is that they actually start talking too soon about their solution, when they need to be talking about either the problems or pains, because these are the things that are aware, and ideally, really talking about the pains and symptoms in the exact same language that they use to describe those pains. Not using the industry jargon, unless you know that your audience is familiar with the industry jargon in the same language that they use to talk about those pains. So that's one big mistake to check right now. It's like, okay, are my lead magnets, you know, those that those freebies that you put out there to build your email list those podcast episodes that you put out there to gain the attention of new people in your audience? Do your podcast episodes focus enough? down? Here are the titles of those episodes, that subjects of those episodes addressing Top of Mind problems and pains, that your ideal person will immediately say, Ah, yes, I need to check this out. Because they might not know anything about your solution yet. Right? They might not know that. For instance, I had a client that was in a hypnobirthing practitioner type of birthing class you take because they have a very specific type of birth you want to have and this is a way of using your own body and mental awareness in order to have a hopefully a drug free birth, right? Well, there are probably plenty of pregnant parents out there that would love to have that kind of birth, but have no idea what hypno birthing is right? So we needed to create, when I looked at her strategy, we needed to create content that spoke to you know, more natural birth, you know, a lot of people who are who are into home birth, like would be in could be interested in home birthing, right, so content about having a home birth, for instance, or just generally content about how to plan for when you finally have your you know, what kind of birth you want and what you don't know that you don't know, meet them here. But then start guiding them as you help them understand here are the problems that show up that ended up making it, you know, the problems that show up? Why, why is it that we end up with so many, you know, birds that are c sections? And why do we end up with so many birds, you know, all the things that they want to avoid, you're explaining these problems and saying we can bypass this stuff by going this direction and planning for your birth in a different way. And now you've got their attention if they did if they are an audience that had that pain of I want to avoid going to the hospital and just ending up having a C section that is not the kind of birth experience I want. And then you can say, Great, I've got this solution called hypno. birthing, right. So double check your strategy, make sure you're not talking about your solution. too early. You know, there are now I'll just say there a caveat. There are some cases where the solution you can lead with upfront. And let's think about something like the Paleo lifestyle. Right? There are a number of different reasons that people go with a paleo lifestyle. 15 years ago, not many people heard about paleo lifestyle. So if you're like out there, like I'm a paleo coach, people would like just pass you pass your content right by and be like, okay, that good for you. Right? But if you talk about, you know, some of the reasons, some of the pain points, some of the goals that people have, that paleo can help them do. You're going to grab their attention, however, now these days there, is there enough people know about paleo is a solution. So now it's more you might be able to talk about paleo in front, but they probably have a pain related. So they might have decided, yes, paleo is a solution for me. But now what you want to identify is, okay, why is it not working for you yet? Or what are the pain points related to it? You know, maybe they thought, Oh, well, last time I tried to do it. I read a book and then I don't know I just ended up spending so much money on like meat and bacon and all these things. And eight was expensive. I didn't know right, or it was just hard. Like I didn't know I just found myself eating grains. You know, I just crave granted. So you figure out what what are those pains that are keeping them from implementing the solution and again, you're coming right back here and you're talking about pain. So this is all about having a deep understanding and empathy for your audience and where they are at. As they're out there thinking about these pains, these problems as they're talking about them as they're looking online and talking to people for, for support for connection for, for a new understanding for new opportunities and possibilities when it comes to solving this this pain or achieving this goal, that it's still eluding them. Right now, I've been talking about I'm going to pause for a second and see if you have anything to add to this Tobin.

Tobin Slaven 35:32

And so first of all, Jason, we're getting some great folks are saying I love the map seeing this laid out this way, I think the the way the questions are going is really in the direction of you've already started to answer it, what kind of content is going to match up with these five different stages. I also want to, it seems like and I just want to check in with you on this, that in the content marketing space. One of the most attractive pieces is that in this client customer journey, we when we're traveling this pathway, we get to choose, we're opting in at each it's permission based because we choose we can eject at any point as we're going through this, in this case, a pyramid, you know, we were gathering information, we're educating ourselves, we're choosing to move forward. And if we run into information, or these are not ideas that I agree with, or this person doesn't seem like the right solution provider for me, we can inject ourselves from the process. The reason why I'm bringing this up, because I think this is the ACE card for content in a world where there's a lot of interruption marketing, and a lot of, we see this on LinkedIn every day with this sort of salesy approach where people are really trying to aggressively push into your inbox. Hey, nice to meet you, this is who I am, this is what I do this is, you know, let's schedule some time. And it's like, you know, my head is spinning on this. With content, we feel like we're back in the driver's seat, we get to choose, you know, we're going to turn right or we're going to turn left, we're going to go straight ahead. We I think that is the big attractive piece here. Right?

Jason Van Orden 37:10

Now, I've actually, I actually found as you were, you were talking there and agree with everything you said, the other version of this pyramid. So I'm gonna try moving this over here to the screen, the version that talks from the content. And you know, what kind of content standpoint and at the end, I'm happy to if anybody wants to email me, Jason at Jason van orden, I'm happy to share the PDFs that I have these diagrams that I've shared with you. So Jason, and Jason van orden will help you to get that. So this is actually going to be a Canva. Because I apparently the PDF I have on my desktop only has the first page so but it'll do it'll do the job. So let me just get this maximized for everybody. So hopefully you can see it. And close this over here, see if we can, okay, so hopefully, hopefully that you know, and again, feel free to ask me for the PDF. This is starting to talk about Okay, well what kind of content so I've already kind of touched on this, this pain aware stuff. This is where your content needs to talk about solving that pain or symptom and he's to empathize with that pain. It's like, especially if you're often when we're we are out there as a coach or consultant, facilitator, whatever, helping people with the problems. So often, it's because we've had that issue in the past, and now we want to help other people with it, right? So say, Hey, I know what it's like I've been there before, share your journey and show that you understand that journey that they've been through. Now if you haven't been through that, hopefully you've helped people as well if you know if you're if you are a coach, or a consultant or teacher, whatever, that you you have stories, case studies that you can share that show that you understand what it's like to be in that position. I talk to people every day, I know what it's like to be frustrated, you know, for instance, if I were talking about this masterclass gonna be like I know what it's like to put content out there and spend so much time and then wonder like, why is it not getting me the sales and leads that I want, right? I'll go into more detail than that. But that would be a great piece of content at this point, right here. And then you want so you want to grab you want to grab their attention this is often going to be again that front part of the funnel that attention phase and then we need to do to get them up to the problem aware stages you need to dispel myths you need to ask yourself what what are the things that they've assumed or true that are not serving them? Well? What are the things what are the myths that they bought into that are not serving them well? What are the maybe the you know that every industry has it's like it's things that it believes and just puts out there as quote unquote gospel truth that sometimes just no longer is true or no longer are they that you believe doesn't serve people so great, flip those things on its head be a contrary and and say, actually what everybody's been saying about problem x turns out the new research says that's not true. So whatever the case is, you want to help them better understand the problem. If they've missed, diagnose the problem, help them diagnose it in the best place. Speaking of which, something like an assessment works really, really well. Here, Tobin, you encouraged me to make an assessment, I was actually working on that right before this call that we got Andre here. And it's an assessment that helps people it speaks to a pain, but it then helps people better understand the problem. And that's a wonderful way, whatever niche you're in, is to have content that helps people kind of take stock of where they're at, and what might might be missing. And it does such a great job of, first of all, demonstrating your expertise. But then second of all, they see the gaps. And now you can go great, I can help you now that I've helped you see the gaps, I'm gonna help you plug those gaps, right. So talk about those gaps, help them assess, explain the problem, dispel myths, and that starts bringing them up to that. Okay, now I understand the problem. Now they're problem aware. So then what you do is you say, Great, now that we've talked about the problem, what what the problem really is, let me talk to you about the opportunity that is out there. So I said, I wanted to use an example of a client of mine recently, just a couple of weeks ago, we did a launch. And I helped to construct a customer journey, a sequence of content that she took people through to have them buy a new course that she was putting out there. And in the end, we ended up getting twice the goal of her sales that she wanted. So it worked really well what we put together. And I had her go and have five to 10. And remember how many she ended up doing five to 10 conversations with people that were the ideal market for this particular for this particular course. And I had to just ask lots of questions about what they were experiencing and what they were trying in order to, you know, in order to to reach that goal or dispel that myth? What were the things that were still holding them back the questions they had the challenges they had, in this case, she happens to teach this very specific type. It's called effort theory. And I don't need to go into the specifics of it here. But basically, effort theory can be applied to a lot of really interesting things. One of them is that it can be used by directors and actors on stage, in order to help an actor evoke a certain emotion or emotional state, right? We've all heard of like, method acting, where it's like, oh, you go and you basically like you, you put yourself as if you're there, and maybe you've even spend time and as if you were in that situation, and just really pulled that emotion up in you. And it turns out that that's one approach. And it's actually doesn't serve a lot of people. So we basically said, Hey, wouldn't it be nice if there was another way without having to like dredge up, you know, if a director is like, hey, I'd like you to be like little more, seem a little more anxious. At this part of the play that you didn't have to dredge up your own emotional history or kind of put you in that anxious place in order to convey and embody in a believable way, that anxiety. And she media's got all these responses to that email. It was basically she was laying that out. It's like, and she was talking about an experience where where she was in that situation, just like that the usual ways that sometimes directors used to get this stuff out of actors is just not helpful and actually problematic sometimes. So said, What if there was a better way? So she pointed out this problem, this pain point said, Look, there's a different way. Here's the problem is we're not we're requiring the wrong things of our actors. And she presented then this solution called effort theory. Right? So it wasn't until we talked about the pain points. And what the problem was, is that we were able to then to start pointing out the solution. So once then, you say, so I've got there's an opportunity, there's, there's a potential solution to this that I'd like to explain to you. So at that point, we shared a case study, she had been directing on stage, Macbeth, believe it or not, through COVID via zoom, this two person show Macbeth and the two people were were playing multiple roles. And so you know, there. And at one point, there's a famous scene where you got Macbeth and Lady Macbeth and Lady Macbeth, over this short span of time goes through all of these, at least the way they were playing, it goes through all these emotional states, almost like she's a little bit schizophrenic. Right? Not an easy thing to act. So in that email, I had her spell out, well, what were some How did you use effort theory, give an example. Explain a little bit of what it was and give an example of how she used it in that moment to create this. This emotion in Lady Macbeth that arrived at the embodiment of that character that they wanted for that moment. And again, people love it. They're like, that's awesome. Like this, I'd never heard of like this approach to things. So you're starting to lay out the solution for them. So at this, as we're making them solution aware, we're presenting this opportunity, this solution, we're building credibility. In this case, we used a case study to build creative credibility, how she had used it in her own practice, you can offer proof This is where case studies are proof. You can use statistics you can use research. You can use testimonials, things like that, right? And you're trying to cultivate trust and likability at the same time. So for just one moment, I'm going to sidestep from this pyramid and Talk about how there's a through line here. That is extremely important. So I've talked about how important it is down here to have relevance. The pain awareness is about having relevance that stops them in their tracks and goes, Oh my gosh, this is relevant to me. Because it addresses a top pain. You also want another R word, which is resonance. resonance is the thing that makes all the difference if you're one of those people is like, how do I break through the noise? Why am I how do I keep Jason you're saying I need to show how I'm different from somebody else? How do I do that? When it seems like there are hundreds of people out there saying the same things as me. They're like so many executive coaches out there are so many different relationship coaches out there. Why is anybody gonna choose to go through my customer journey or pay attention to what I have versus Anybody else? And one of the one of the big answers to that is resonance. And by resonance, I mean that they like who you are. Trust is made up of credibility and likeability. And sometimes we get so hung up on credibility, we forget to paint the picture of likability. So what does that mean? Well, that's telling stories that sharing your values, your reasons why for doing things, it's, it's, you know, showing, you know, if you happen to be somebody who you know, likes to use humor, you use that humor, it's just allowing yourself to authentically infuse into the content. So, as they're going through this, you're not just you know, helping in this very pragmatic way in teaching them things, but you're, they're also getting to know you. And that, as they get to the end of this, they're starting to think, wow, I really like how you make me think I like how you think. And I like how you make me think. And I like how you make me feel as I'm going through this stuff, or I like how you empathize with what I'm going through. So that's, that's the cultivating trust and likability part is really leaning into that in your content, and then also show why your approach is unique. And we didn't have to work very hard for the effort theory, because a lot of people hadn't heard of it. Or they if they'd heard of it, they're like, yeah, I've heard of this. And I just never had an opportunity to to learn it, right. In some cases, you might need to say, yeah, you know what, I've got this ever other approach. Maybe you teach people to invest in cryptocurrency, and you've got this unique mathematic approach that you think is better than what else is out there. It's like, great, show why that is, you know, tell a story, share some proof, show why your solution is better than other options they might have out there. They might not be price shopping against other people, but they might be deciding whether or not to do it themselves, do nothing at all right, you need to show why your approach is the unique and best solution for them. So once you've done that, then it's time to help them understand that you awareness. And this is also where resonance comes in. If you've done resonance, right through these three stages, by the time you get through pain aware problem or solution aware, they're probably already you aware, they're probably starting to think, yeah, if I do this, this is the person I want to help me with this. So you know, by by telling your own story of why one thing, one thing I love to do, and then launch content is to have somebody tells a story of how they discovered their approach and their methodology, why this became the thing that was that they now are out there saying, this is the best way, this is the, you know, this, I went out into the desert and I met Obi Wan, and he gave me the force. And now I'm back here to share it with you. So you can be the own hero in your story. Right? So what, you know, telling that story about how you came in. So there's lots of different ways to help people resonate with you. And the end goal like yeah, you know, what I want, I want to, I want to work with with you. And then at that point, when it comes to the, you know, those final emails of the sequence or, or that you know, you're in the promotion, and now that the deadline is ending, or you just want to maybe you don't have a deadline, but it's like, Okay, it's time to make a decision. The final thing here, so they're at you awareness, and in order to get them up to now awareness, you help them understand why it's better for them to take action now rather than wait until quote, unquote, someday later, like I said, that could be never actually and that's simply going back to help them see the cost of doing nothing. The cost of going to do it yourself route or the cost of you know, whatever their alternative they might choose, and show them it's like, Look, the time money and energy you would focus on this solution in the end is going to gain you so much. It becomes a no brainer to say yes now, and that would just leave too much. No, where will you be in six months if you do nothing, right? And you don't need to do this in a manipulative way you do this in a very consultative, I'm here to serve and help you find the best direction for you. And so I want you to help to see and sometimes you can directly spell out, hey, my methodologies for inventory and cost control in your small business, when you implement them, on average are going to save your team five hours a month and $5,000 in losses. Sometimes it's that directing go so paying me $5,000 is nothing considering once you put this into place, you're going to be saving that on a monthly basis. Right? You're lucky if you're in that position to go that directly. But it's even if it's like something a little bit more abstract, you know, the stress it's going to relieve for them, the opportunities, it's going to open up for them, how they will be different and feel different from now. So the gains that they won't gain, if they say no, and the pains that they'll still have, if they say, No, you just help them see that, right. And once you do that, then they are now aware. And then at that point, of course, it's provide amazing value, give them an awesome experience, and go beyond their expectations and delivering to them as a consultant as a client. And of course, then that turns them hopefully into an evangelist for your business, and, and so forth. So this is the type of content and another important framework in your strategy. Because again, if you zoom out and go, okay, in my email sequence, in the content that I put out there through these various channels, am I missing? Am I talking about the solution too soon? Am I not empathizing with the pain enough? Am I not helping them reframe the problem? Am I not doing that last bit of the now awareness that's going to help them understand why they need to consider buying right now. And you can hopefully see where the holes are. On a pause here in a second, see if anything to add Tobin. The other thing I just want to say quickly is if we go back to those three phases, attention, earned trust and inspired by loosely speaking, the gain attention is this phase down here, pain awareness. Sometimes you might be in a niche where it's like talking about the problem is exactly what's going to get people's attention. But usually, the safest bet in the widest net is to talk about the pain first. So attention awareness to hear these three middle phases right here are all about the Earned trust. So problem, were solution aware, you aware. And then the now aware is about inspired by it, because you're basically saying, Look, I've shown you how this works, I've shown you the results you can get. And you know, hopefully now you believe that I can do this for you that this is a solution for you. And here's why you should do it. Now, if this is vibing, if this is resonating with you. So that's how you can use this framework to find any holes in the content that you're creating. Anything to add to that Tobin?

Tobin Slaven 52:11

Well, I do actually have some questions that have come up. So one thing that I really liked that you've done here, Jason, we started talking about content marketing. And then you broke that down into the three pieces. You showed us the other diagram, where, you know, we're moving them through that process. And now those three steps, essentially, we broken down into five, so you're getting more nuanced. at each level. I have a question I'm going to ask you in a moment. But I do want to let folks know, we're coming up on our last five minutes here, we are going to be switching over, we're actually going to join into q&a. And so what I've loved before I asked my question, Jason, I want you to prompt the group so they can start thinking, folks, we have a bunch of folks already in me, we're going to be doing q&a tables, talking about content in their business, what prompt Would you like to share with them, Jason so they can start thinking and getting ready for you jumping over to do the q&a session?

Jason Van Orden 53:09

The prompt that I would give is using these frameworks. So either that three piece framework, which is, is the one that I use for thinking about which channels? And do I have the right channels in each of the three phases to make a complete journey? either using that framework, or this framework that's on the screen right now, which is the one I use when I'm thinking from a content standpoint, what kind of content Do I need to deliver at each point in the in the process to move them forward? using either those frameworks? Where do you see you might have a hole in your content strategy, whether that's in the type of content you're creating, or the types of channels that you are using? And maybe we talk about some of those holes and potentially even give you some ideas about how to plug?

Tobin Slaven 53:53

Yeah, I love that. I'm excited to dig into this. The question I'm eager to hear more about Jason is you talked a couple you mentioned a couple times the use of case studies. And where that fits into this content ladder. Do you have a feeling? It seemed like there are a couple different points where they could potentially fit? How do you leverage case studies in your approach to content marketing?

Jason Van Orden 54:18

Well, this brings up a really good point is that even though you know, I've presented these as Flink frameworks that you know, moving kind of a linear linear path. The truth of the matter is that sometimes things do crossover, right. So a podcast is great at earning trust. But it might also get me some attention, right? podcasts are horrible at inspiring people to buy. So don't even go there. Right. So but that a channel could actually play a role in multiple parts. And it's the same with it's the same with types of content here as well. You could present a case study that, that that, you know that like let's say that you're using a case study as a freebie, right? And so you're saying hey, do you have this pain? I've got a case study they'll show you a fantastic New Way that'll how to solve that pain without doing this thing that you don't want to do. And even if you're worried about this thing over here, so come opt in if you'd like to get this sucker, right, so it's like the promise of that case study. But really, it's the how it relates to that pain that gets their attention. But then in reading the case study, you know, you can say, yeah, so I was working with this client, and they were here. when everything started out, and you're painting that picture, and they're going, Oh, my God, yeah, that was me. That's where I was, too. So you're showing this real understanding and empathy for where the person's at, then you're going. So they were and they were worried about this. And they were assuming that until I helped them see that, really, this is what was needed. Right. And so now, so the case study itself can like move somebody through a bunch of these, all of these phases, really. So you know, reframe the problem, then say, so then what we decided, so they were trying this, and that didn't work. And then they did this, and that didn't work. And the person who's reading is going like, yeah, I've tried those things. And it was frustrating, too. And they were like, so then I said, Okay, I've got this solution for you. And here's what we did, you know, and you've started. So now you're painting the roadmap, you're saying, we did this, and then we did that, and we got rid of this thing that we're trying to do. And then we plug these holes, and we fix that, or we did an assessment and then and that's presenting the solution. And then you're painting the results At the end saying, and then afterwards, you know, they were healthy and wealthy and wise, and whatever the fantastic things that they wanted, right? And, and so that's getting that proof of the solution. And hopefully, you're dropping in there some reasons why that was the solution that you chose for them, and therefore giving the reader reasons why that's a good unique solution for them. And again, if you've done if you've shared that case, study in a way that also demonstrates your personality, your expertise, who you are, what you value, how you interface with clients, because you're telling a case study by interfacing with a client, for instance, well, that's probably gonna help them with you awareness as well. So the truth is a single piece of content, like a webinar, for instance, one reason why webinars are really great is it you can get people to show up and give you you know, half hour, 45 minutes an hour. And you can actually take them through all of these phases. In one webinar, a case study could take him through all these phases, or it's maybe a lead magnet, and then a sequence of emails that gets them through that phases, or they're on your email list. Because you they were pain aware. And now they're like listening to your podcast and getting your content. And over time, it's just kind of this, you know, but finally, they're like, I need to get serious about this. And so you know, you've got a campaign that runs and then it really finally gets them to move the rest of the way through this. You know, this, this pyramid here. But that's how content can actually cover multiple places at the same time.

Tobin Slaven 57:37

My takeaway from this session, Jason is going to be that your content has to be designed to take people on that journey, that you've got to move them, you've got to move them in there, you've mentioned several different types of vehicles that could help make this journey with and for them. But ultimately, you have to take them in, in the case of your diagram on the screen, it could be climbing the mountain, literally onto the top of the pyramid here. But you've got to move them in the process. And if you don't move them, you're going to lose them on the way.

Jason Van Orden 58:09

and we've talked about which channels you're using, which formats you're using, which is that first diagram to move them through, and what messaging you're using, which is this diagram, and the holes are somewhere in those three, the channels, the formats, or the messaging, right. And if you're not getting the results you want, you got to zoom out, see where the holes are in those in those three areas. And then you start plugging those holes.

Tobin Slaven 58:32

Folks, that's what we're going to do next, we're going to jump over to the q&a tables. We're going to have a talk, we're gonna have a conversation about where do you think the holes are in your business? And what could you do to plug some of those holes on the content side of things. Jason is going to be joining us there, I will put the link one more time. This is your last chance to join us over near meat. I'm going to put it in the comments if you want to join us there. We're using me because basically we have a table you'll see when you log in. It's like you've got a bird's eye view, you'll look down on the table, you'll see that there are chairs, you click into one and you're all of a sudden you're going to be at one of these tables with Jason so we can talk a little bit more about your business what you're doing in the business. I hope you'll join us there. Jason, this has been great. Appreciate you doing the live stream portion of this. We'll go to the q&a now. And let me just wrap up any last thoughts on your end, Jason before we

Jason Van Orden 59:22

know just it's been my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Tobin, I look forward to chatting with everybody in the aremy tables.

Tobin Slaven 59:28

Yeah, I'm excited for this as well. That's right up my alley. So excited to dig deeper. Thanks, everyone. And we'll see what the q&a tables

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