Podcast Episodes

E43: Why Aren’t People Clicking On My Stuff?

In today’s short episode, I am going to share the Fogg Behavior Model and like toothpaste out of the tube, we will talk about how it will totally change the way you look at your online marketing.

Unknown Speaker 0:00

All right, so it's time for a special edition of Book of Experts TV. Today we're going to talk about a question. Maybe you've asked yourself this question I certainly did. More importantly, I'm going to share with you something that completely changed how I look at digital marketing. And I've been working in this space for over a dozen years. But the toothpaste is attitude. Once you see this, you can't unsee it. And every digital, every piece of marketing that you look at, you will think about differently because of what we're going to talk about today. But first, let's jump into bookbags.

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Time for book of experts, TV,

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topics you love.

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Experts, you trust.

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Richard, three referrals

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tried tested.

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This is book vexperts, brought to you by SalesMAP.me.

Unknown Speaker 1:05

All right, so we today we're going to talk about,

Unknown Speaker 1:08

you know, this is something I was putting together for some client work. And I wanted to share with you guys let me actually pull up this screen share and there. So this will make a little bit more sense that these are actually notes that I was creating for a presentation. I was thinking about you guys. And I said, You know what, I'm going to put this out here in a special edition because it was that big of a game changer for me. And I think you'll want to see it as well. The big thing that we're talking about here is the question we're solving the question we're answering is, why aren't people clicking on my stuff? Right? You know, when you when you are putting things out there regular it might be the content like this is a video on this is content that I'm putting out there and one form or another. It might be blog posts, it might be social media posts, might be speaking engagements, either in real life or these days tends to be virtual now. But why aren't people paying attention? And if the only answer you get is well, it's a busy crowded world, like everyone's spreading their attention around, there's a lot of demands on our attention. That sort of explains what's going on. But it doesn't really help you solve that problem, especially if you're trying to make a bigger impact you want, you want to make a bigger impact on the people that need to hear some of the stuff that you have to share, you know, you can influence them in a positive way, you can maybe even transform their world if you have an opportunity to work with them. So to do that, you've got to figure out a plan. And that's what today's conversation is going to be about, I'm actually going to walk through some steps about how you can work smarter instead of harder. And the reason why I say that is if all we do is just smash the buttons harder and faster trying to get people to pay attention. Well, that's not good for you. And it's actually not good for them either. There is a way to think about what we're putting out there and realize, based on what people are seeing and doing, we can make some adjustments that will speak directly to what they need, not what we think we want to put out there. Does that make sense? Let's dig into it. And I'll walk you through this a little bit more.

Unknown Speaker 3:11


Unknown Speaker 3:12

again, this if you heard the, if you saw the notes, this is based on the Fogg behavior model, I don't know if you're familiar with this, I wasn't until a year or two ago. And again, it this is completely changed how I'm looking at the space that I've been working in for over a dozen years. Because as marketers, as salespeople, there's like one big mistake that we're kind of using one playbook or one approach or one strategy to meet people and sort of engage with them. You'll see this in a moment of what I mean, I'll give you some practical examples. But we do this one thing. And when when people don't respond to it, we're puzzled like, why aren't they clicking on my stuff? What's going on? Why don't don't they care? Don't they see the value in this? And we're actually missing what the bigger inherent question is, and what they might need. And that's really what the Fogg behavior model does. So, if you're not, oh, we've got a broken image. Interesting. Well, there was there was a nice image of BJ Fogg here, but for some reason, it went away. If you're not familiar with the Fogg behavior model, basically, BJ Fogg, he's a professor at Stanford. You know, his the focus of his work has been on human interaction with computers, so totally applies to what we're talking about here. But this is more tech, it's more psychology than technology, right? It's really like how do we function as humans like, what's what's actually going on? What's the Ghost in the Machine, trying to figure out here, right. And basically, these are words from BJ. He says, if we know why behaviors occurring, then we can trigger that behavior in a different way, and get the results that we actually want. So if you're not getting the results, and that's kind of the premise of what I'm sharing Yours, if you want different results, what is that different strategy? How do you think about coming up with a strategy that's going to be more productive for you?

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Unknown Speaker 5:13

you know what we're, hold on. I'm going

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Unknown Speaker 5:18

let's try this for a second. We're getting some slight issues. So I'm going to stop that I'm going to refresh the page, because I think maybe that will help. Yeah. All right. So let's bring this back in. We'll give BJ is due in just a moment here. All right. So this is BJ Fogg, that was the image that was broken on the link before I should have refreshed that before I get started. So we talked about him, this is called the Fogg behavior model. This is, this is the formula so that I'm, I'm gonna break down, I'm gonna show this in a better way in a moment. And we'll break down what this actually means. But when you hear the Fogg behavior model, you'll see two things. One is usually this graph on the right hand side, you can see it's, it goes from low motivation to high motivation, like when do we really want something in your plotting the engagement with another person, so if you're trying to convince your kids to eat their vegetables, or go to bed, or do their homework or whatever, you know, some activity that you want, or you're trying to work in the in this online space, maybe this digital marketing space, that would be another example, convince your friends to go out and have a good time on the weekend, whatever the case, when we're trying to influence others, you can plot that interaction on this graph, where, you know, do they really want it? are they feeling motivated? Is that motivation coming from them? Or you're trying to convince them to do something? And then the bottom? Part of this the ability, and I actually like the word confidence, better is, can I actually do that, and this is the piece that most marketing folks are missing. They're focused on the motivation side, they're trying to convince people, but they're missing out on the confidence side. So basically, behavior, motivation, ability and trigger, that's the full formula. I don't find this slide to be that useful, because it's just sort of setting up the premise. But let's talk about what this actually means behavior defines the actions that we want. That's the that's what we actually want people to do, click Buy, engage with our content. That's what that's the goal. The objective here, the motivation is the is, you know, how much does this person actually wanted? are they seeing the value in it for themselves? Right? Are they motivated? Are they wanting this thing on their own without having to be pushed into it? BJ Fogg calls it ability. Again, I like confidence, better confidence in our ability. But this is the one that's often overlooked. It means that that ability to get the promised results. So they actually believe that if they take action, they have agency here to get the results that they're looking for. And then also the trigger is the thing that's going to sort of visually stimulate them. This could be as simple as a button on your website could be a notification that they get through social media. But what is the thing that's going to say, Okay, now is the time to do this. Because without that prompt, without the trigger, the formula doesn't work. BJ will say people resist attempts at boosting motivation. But we all naturally love simplicity. The other way I like to think about this is we all love to buy, we do not like to be sold. So when when this motivation when it's when we're inspired internally, you know, we just things kind of flow, well, we'll just sort of do it naturally. But if we're feeling pushed into something, you know, when people trying to boost and say, Oh, you really should do this, where we're resistant, we're rebellious. It's just part of human nature that we want. We want to feel compelled, not convinced. So this is the graph that I actually I think is a little bit more useful. Again, we're talking about the same thing, motivation. Over here on the x axis, ability or confidence on the Y. When you're down in this range, meaning a low motivation, someone's not sure they want it. They don't even know why they should want it. And they don't believe that they could get the results out of it. Anyways, this is when you get crickets. Right, this is when people just ignore your stuff, they're not paying attention. They don't know what to do with it, you don't get the results you're looking for. If you can move again, think of plotting your engagement. If you can move people into this upper right hand quadrant This is high motivation and high belief in themselves that they that they can get the results that you're sharing. This is when you start to see what I call killer offers.

Unknown Speaker 9:51


Unknown Speaker 9:52

got to come up with a better name because I don't love the you know the knock them dead connotation of this but you know, killer offers that people will respond They'll get results you'll be happy and achieve your goals with as well. This is where we're trying to move, how do we make that shift? So, there are three types of triggers that we can break this down. One is spark triggers. Okay, so a spark is, you know, answering the question of why should someone do this? Why should they care. And this is where I have spent most of my time and work as a digital marketing person, most of the time is trying to spark that motivation or that inspiration. And I'm not saying you shouldn't do this, there's, there's actually examples of when this really makes sense, give those to you in just a moment. But it's one side of the playbook. It's one side of the equation here. And without, with if you only address the motivation side, and you don't address the ability or confidence side, which you'll see in just a moment, you're This is why you get crickets or your offers fall flat. And people don't click on your stuff, this was the wake up call. For me, this was the calling of the to paint toothpaste out of the tube. Because once you understand that, there's two sides of this that you have to address, you'll start to strengthen this other leg. And you'll you'll be able to run because you've got both legs working. Whereas if you're got one leg working, you're just hopping along and you're not getting, making the progress that you want. So for example, make money offers which we see a lot in the, in the business, space, business to business space, everything is ROI. Here's how we're going to help you make or bring in more cash flow more revenue into your business. those tend to be very high motivation. We don't have to push very hard people want to be able to make more money, or, you know, lose weight or you know, look more sexy, look sexier or all those things, we're motivated to do that on our own. The problem is that we are skeptical, right, we question well, will this actually work for me. And so those, that's an example of where a spark trigger can hit someone who's highly motivated. But they don't believe that they can actually get the results that you're talking about. So it's showing up, let's go back to this, it's showing up in this area of the graph. Okay, so high motivation, but low belief or confidence. And so it's showing here and it's you're not getting a killer offer, you're getting crickets, or maybe a little bit of mode, maybe a little bit of curiosity, but a lot of disbelief and skepticism, right? So you're not getting people are not signing up for your offers the way you want them to. The next one is the facilitator triggers. That is, this is where you start to address how this will actually work for you. An example of this would be social proof. Okay. So we know, for example, social proof is very, really helps people connect the dots because they start to see other, you know, it worked for this person, and it worked for this person, they're kind of like me, so I think that this could work for me as well, it's building that level of confidence. Another way you can do this is to actually show steps of your process, like, our process is as simple as just doing these two things. So an example that I talked about in the world that I work in of conversational outreach, you've got to have two things to make it work, you have to have a list of leads, the actual the perfect prospects that you should be talking to. And we've got a whole list of strategies of how we do that. And secondly, you've got to have a conversation with them. So we have whole different set of strategies on how to strike up that conversation, how to turn it into a sales conversation, so a whole different process. But you really only need the two things. So talking about that part of it is a facilitator trigger in its addressing this other aspect, the confidence or the ability aspect. And then lastly, there are signal triggers. And this is the event based, hey, the time is now and I want to get your attention because now it's time to do this thing. That could be a notification. This is one of the reasons why event based marketing is so powerful. Because there's a there's an inherent natural deadline, the event is going to happen. So you've got to take action now if you delay, the events going to be will have gone by and you'll have missed your opportunity. Right so you know, get on the train, let's go. So signal triggers can be very

Unknown Speaker 14:28

effective for folks

Unknown Speaker 14:33

with social proof, and I mentioned that a moment ago, but this is you know, when we see the see people lining up outside the Apple Store, we see people lining up outside the restaurant. We just human psychology is we're curious, okay, what do they know that we don't know? There is a trust factor. Okay. There are other people that have already determined this is the restaurant to go to. We don't want to pull into the restaurant that has an empty parking lot and Looks like a ghost town, we want to go to the one where people are lining up. So you know, this is the momentum, in that you see in the marketing space of getting something going and people will follow the crowd this way.

Unknown Speaker 15:11


Unknown Speaker 15:12

just human nature to want that. And when it's exclusive, when it's hard to get we just one more. When we talk about the results, when we talk about the the, what I explained before these facilitator triggers, when we talk about that, it's also its process, right? Simple as 123, you can have results like this to people need to believe and have the confidence that they can actually get what you're promising. Because otherwise we're we might want it but we're naturally skeptical. And then lastly, I mentioned our ability to to see ourselves and others, right? Particularly if they're like us, this is why when you create your social proof, obviously you want to share your your best success stories. But you also want to give some thought to Who are you actually trying to attract? And can you find those characteristics, in your use cases, your your success stories, your testimonials, so that others will recognize themselves? Oh, this person, their business or this the status, the stage of their business looks like? No, they're just starting out like I am or they're, they're at this advanced level. So this isn't a program just for beginners, it's this fits for me because and you give them an opportunity to find themselves in the examples that you share. So ultimately, what this is, is in you, you hear this all the time, this is like a marketing precept, it's, it's almost tired, how much this is thrown around, but it's the ability to deliver the right message at the right time. And the reason why, okay, so people are using this phrase, what does that actually mean? Well, right message at the right time is this Fogg behavior model formula, if you want to break it down into steps, so you can reverse engineer it, you can actually make it happen on purpose, you would address the motivation. So you would plot where, you know, what is their motivation? Why should they care? But don't stop there. And this is the mistake that I've made as a marketing person, a lot of times I addressed it, that's all I had to think about was the why should they care? If I answer that that's enough, but it's only part of the puzzle, it's only one half the puzzle here. The other part is the making sure that they see they have the ability, the confidence that you address the skepticism, and that we trigger this right, three parts going back to that, then, you know, motivation, ability, and the triggers the three the three different types of triggers that we talked about.

Unknown Speaker 17:50


Unknown Speaker 17:52

I threw this in here, because I work a lot with a messaging we do, again, the conversational outreach. So messaging, we're always talking about what is the, what's the message here? How are you delivering this information, but examples, when you're seeing headlines, messages, conversations about pleasure, pain, someone the other day called it, you know, fear and goals, or fear and dreams, your hope, your fears, rejection or acceptance, so sort of, you know, emotional, those are all motivation factors that you can build into your messaging, you can talk about these aspects. And it is potentially if you're doing it, well going to move people up on that access x access, they're going to go higher on that the the left side, the left, you know, moving up in the quadrants there of the Fogg behavior model, that you can actually enhance the motivation for them to want again, simple level, why should they care? The simplicity factors?

Unknown Speaker 18:55

Which I see I have a typo in Sorry about that.

Unknown Speaker 18:58

Simplicity is this is where you talk about what is the impact of time? It don't, maybe you you reframe the conversation about money, listen, you can have this, if you're willing, if you'd be willing to give up your coffee each morning, in exchange, you could have this big impact in your life. Right? How much effort will it take? Maybe it's a question of expertise. They don't believe they can do this, but you can show them that you actually, you can bring the expertise and you can basically onboard it into them in this simple process. Brain cycles is how hard Am I going to have to think and work with this? Like, do I have to learn a whole new skill set to make this work for me? Or can you, you know, is there an easy button here? The creation of new habits, how can you help them are there tools and resources? And then also one thing that we oftentimes forget about and that is the avoidance of looking weird, right? We no one, you know, no one wants to be sort of called out and like, look like you're making a Big mistake in front of a crowd that embarrassment factor. So sometimes we seek out weird. And I actually think that our world is becoming more open and accepting of all of us in our in our weirdness. But when it feels like a threat to people, they're very guarded. So being able to address that and saying, look, there's other people doing this. That's why the social proof aspect is so effective there. So, how do we take this whole thing that I've shared this Fogg behavior model? And how do we make it actionable? How do we actually do something with it? So it's not just in our heads, but we can work with this. This is this is how I'm thinking about this. In my day to day work, so pick the behavior pick the goal of what what is it that you're trying to accomplish? Focus, pick one person, one real person, not an avatar, not marry the marketer or, you know, Suzy, the salesperson, but one actual real person and say, you know, where would they plot? Where do I think that they would fall on this fbm chart? Where do I, what do I think their motivation is here? And what do I think? Or what do I guess that they're thinking about their ability, their confidence to actually do these things? So you know, if I asked them to sign up for a webinar, well, we do that all the time, that's easy to do, they probably have high confidence. That's why that question right there, for example, signing up and rolling for a webinar that you're going to do next week, if that is your objective. That's where you can focus on the motivation factors, because they're, you're competing for attention with everyone else, why should Why should they care enough to take the time? That's a motivation question. But in other cases, when you're trying to get people to take action, it might actually be that they're skeptical. They're they don't believe they can, we don't question whether we can register for the webinar, we question. Will the information in the webinar actually work for us? Right? Okay. Right triggers, create triggers, in your headlines and your messaging with other people that hit these buttons, motivation, ability, or confidence, and the event base the timing trigger, and test at least 10 of them. I said, 10, because one of the things that I've been training myself to do is write down a bunch of various variables, like different different ways you could do something, so make a list of 10, I could, my headline could look like this. Or it could look like this and force yourself to create at least 10. Because just by looking at a variety variety of these, you increase your chances that you're going to address these different aspects that are going to speak to what people are actually feeling inside, which might be their lack of confidence, or the skepticism instead of the motivation factor.

Unknown Speaker 22:48

I thought this was kind of funny, because I put my quote on there, your marketing is going to live and die by this Fogg behavior model, whether you know this or not. This has been my practical experience, which is, I spent an inordinate amount of time most of my time, most of my focus has been on the motivation side. And I wasn't thinking about the ability or the confidence side as much. So I wasn't I was only half the digital marketer that I could be, until I realized that the Fogg behavior model gave me a more comprehensive picture. And that's why again, I'm using this analogy of the toothpaste, his attitude, once you see this, every time you see a marketing campaign, you're going to look at it. And you're going to kind of measure it against this, this chart, the Fogg behavior model, and you'll plot it where, you know, they're really strong with motivation here. But there, people probably are questioning whether they could actually get the same results. So then they don't have a killer offer for that reason. All right. If you're interested, just sticking this in here, because I'm not sure who's you know, we're live streaming through a whole bunch of platforms right now. But come visit us at sales map, that's what we do is help people build their sales teams. In fact, you can turn your recruitment, your training and your onboarding, not only into, it's not a cost. And actually, it could be a profit center for your business. We have a case study that I just shared, or we'll be sharing a little bit later today 242% ROI in the first week of a custom boot camp. That means that they're getting paid to hire people onto their team. They hired us to help them run this custom boot camp and bring build their sales team. But they're actually earning money by doing it. And we're going to break this down into a use case so you guys can learn more about it. But if bringing on three to five new, perfect prospects into your business sounds attractive to you, we should have conversation. love to talk with you about that. And that's what we've got for today. Again, I wanted to share this because I had to put the slides together for a different project anyways, thought you guys would be interested. Oops, I see I had a comment for the George's irresistible offer. Not sure Fred, I'm just seeing this now I'm not sure which part you thought was irresistible. Mostly I'm just sharing this information because I found it pretty useful for myself. Hopefully you found it equally so. And I wanted to get it up there for more folks. This was an episode of book of experts TV, this is brought to you by sales map, you saw that sales map.me. That's where I am my partners actually work with building the sales teams. And we're incubating. We're building the book of experts community, because we love this community of people. These are expert based businesses, their thought leaders, their authors, their influencers, agency owners, coaches and consultants. And they're making a big impact on the world. And for that reason, we want more of those people to be successful in the world. We're building the toolset that we've created a book of experts, and we're basically it's free. It's invitation only. So we're not just giving it away to everyone, you do have to be an expert in your space. And if you're not sure about that, I'd love to talk with you about how we define that how we look at that. So it is a book of experts is invitation only, but once you're in there, we've got a whole toolset to help you bring more folks into your world so you can make a bigger impact.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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